Welcome to the Wasabiverse
The BotCon Chronicles…
The story to far…
1. Around the end of last year, I got word that BotCon, the Hasbro sponsored official Transformers convention, would be coming to Orlando, Florida. My friend Joey Snackpants and I became as giddy as schoolgirls at a Twilight movie premiere.
2. We contacted the convention offering to bring a “local flavor” to the show with the copyrighted trademarked patent pending universal awesomeness of “DARE! The Transformers Panel Ultimate”… our uniquely unique Transformers fan panel that has been featured at dozens of conventions in the Florida/Georgia area.
3. After a number of “please stand by” emails – we finally heard back with “no thank you” less than six weeks before the show.
4. Since we weren’t performing at BotCon, we took up an offer from the pop culture website You Bent My Wookie to go as press and write a review of our experience.
5. Joey Snackpants drove south. I drove north. We went to BotCon. We wrote this.
6. Not happy with our less than stellar review of thier show, BotCon fans found the YBMW review AND my original post criticizing BotCon regarding #4 (above.) Arguments ensued on my blog in this post.
7. Using the power of the Interwebz, I found the source of people finding my old blog post… it seems it was born out of this thread on the All Spark forums. (subsequent digging have also tracked that the blog post has been linked in member messages to and from folks at TransformersClub.com)
So there we are. I took some time to read some of the forum posts on the All Spark forums – and I found this gem from a BotCon STAFF member:
Pete@BotCon
Registered attendees always will take priority. It is all of you who support the convention, the local hotels, the eateries and so on and thus help us continue to churn out conventions and toys.
It reminds me of a scene from The Wedding Singer…
Billy Idol
One of our first class passengers would like to sing you a song inspired by one of our coach passengers. And since we let our first class passengers do, pretty much whatever they want, here he is…
A lot of the BotCon attendees have started to freak out and take offense to my insinuation that there is an air of elitism in the BotCon ranks and that the show doesn’t really cater to the “off the street” casual Transformers non-toy collecting fans. HELLO. (See above quotes.)
People keep resorting to diversionary Internet argument styles reminiscent of LiveJournal circa 2004… that is, they are trying to hinge their “argument” off of opinions OR facts that have nothing to do with what is presented while AVOIDING the key things that were brought up. Or they just post idiotic shit like this loser so his Twitter so his five followers can read it. FAIL.
So for all of you posting in this thread on my blog and visiting lurkers from AllSpark.com and TransformersClub.com… this is for you.
FACT: In the YBMW review (and related blog posts) we are talking about BotCon 2010. A number of you keep telling me how great the other BotCon conventions have been for years and (quite bluntly) I DON’T GIVE A SHIT. I reviewed BotCon 2010… not 2009, not 2008, and none of the years previous. The more you tell me how great the other years truly were, the more you are helping justify my opinion that this year’s show was WEAK.
FACT: BotCon only provided two rooms of entertainment for attendees – a dealers room and a panels room. This is BELOW AVERAGE for a fandom convention, thus the formultion of my opinion that BotCon presents itself as more of a TRADE SHOW.
FACT: BotCon did not have tickets on sale for their event online until (approximately) May 18th – which is barely a month out from June 24th (the start of BotCon) – a mere 36 days from the show… and not ALL the tickets. General admission was only available at the door. BotCon has been doing conventions for YEARS and yet the local “mom and pop” amateur shows seem to be able to get their act together sooner than that.
FACT: Speaking of tickets online, BotCon failed to disclose ALL of their pricing information in advance. Nowhere on the site did it state that there is an additional fee of $25 for an autograph AFTER paying $50 for an early admission ticket. Hence the perception of gouging attendees for money!
FACT: Speaking of information in advance, the BotCon schedule of events wasn’t announced until less than an month from the show. (See my comment a couple of facts back about the whole “amateur shows in Florida have been doing it better for years!” comments.) BotCon isn’t San Diego Comic Con; they’re not juggling 125,000 people – thus a schedule in advance shouldn’t be this hard!
FACT: Approximately 35% of the event schedule posted by BotCon was merely “autograph sessions.” Add in the fact that they list the load in times for dealers and related non-attendee useful information and it is EASY to come to the conclusion that the schedule is PADDED to look busier that it was.
Face it folks… those of you who spend the money you do on the BotCon trade show do so for collecting toys – NOT for a convention experience. I don’t know who is to blame in the end: Hasbro, the Convention promotors, or the complacency of the fans who keep handing over their money year after year.
In the end, though, Joey said it right: BotCon was BotFAIL this year.
| Print article | This entry was posted by Tom on July 11, 2010 at 11:04 AM, and is filed under Conventions. Follow any responses to this post through RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback from your own site. |
- Tweets that mention The BotCon Chronicles… « Tom Croom — Topsy.com
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- You can take a girl out of the mountains, but… « Tom Croom
- DUDE, I’m in an Obscure WebComic! « Joey Snackpants
- Sorry for the lack of updates lately… – Green Mustard Entertainment
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about 1 week ago - 11 comments
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about 4 weeks ago - 1 comment
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about 1 month ago - 2 comments
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FINALLY! The kids from [insert webcomic here] have finally gone home; now for #GenCon
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Living in an Amish Paradise…
about 1 month ago - No comments
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about 1 month ago - 27 comments
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about 1 month ago - 51 comments
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about 1 month ago - 32 comments
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You can take a girl out of the mountains, but…
about 1 month ago - 2 comments
I am in Colorado for the next couple of days for business. Each year I come out here and fall in love with the breathtaking view and take some time for white water rafting. (The pic in this post is taken from the view from my hotel room.) Don’t get me wrong, I’ll keep the
about 1 month ago
Sorry, I know I’m not going to be considered neutral in all this, and really, I don’t care. For the sake of full disclosure, I do work for Fun Publications, and specifically to Botcon 2010, I cowrote the convention comic.
I’ll be addressing your facts one at a time.
Fact #1: From your report, you reviewed 4 hours of the dealer room. That’s not the whole convention, not by a longshot. This is the primary complaint that you’ve been getting from the larger TF fandom that attends Botcon. Even limiting to what was in the dealer room, you report on very little of what was there: Hasbro designers talking with the fans and giving sketches, IDW and Stan Bush hanging out at their booths with easy access to the fandom, and so forth.
Fact #2: Sure, there were two rooms available, the dealer room and the panel room. This may not be standard for most conventions, but Botcon isn’t most conventions. It is a single-focus convention for a single franchise. Most conventions I’ve been to that have multiple panel rooms are for larger, more general topics (comic conventions, sci-fi cons, gaming cons) and panels are carefully scheduled to allow for attendees of a general interest to hit everything associated with their fandom. Everything is run concurrently so that if there’s two things you want to see, you won’t have to miss one for a scheduling conflict. This is in direct reaction to complaints of doubled-up panel situations in previous years.
Fact #3: There were registration issues this year. Not everything is perfect, but it’s getting ironed out. General admission has always been at the door, however, with a variety of preregistration packages available.
Fact #4: This is a legitimate complaint.
Fact #5: I’m not really sure how this is a complaint rather than an observation. Under what possible circumstance would the ordering and scheduling of the individual panels be in any way vital to know a month before the show happens? Or is this more of a complaint about not knowing the guests until closer to the con? If you’re really into autographs and speakers, you may have a bit of a point, trying to figure out if you want to attend. The con organization philosophy is to be dead certain of information before posting, so it doesn’t have to be retracted later. Better to announce Peter Cullen’s attendance a bit closer to the convention than announce it early, have him have to cancel for scheduling reasons, and then wind up enraging preregistrants for whom his attendance was the tipping point.
Fact #6: Having all the information that would be useful to attendees be on a single schedule is ‘padding’ the schedule, somehow? Yes, “dealer set up” is on the schedule for each day, because dealers get the same schedule as everyone else. It is four lines on the schedule, hardly evidence for padding unless you’re looking for patterns that aren’t there.
–
What seems to have been missed by yourself and Mr. Snackpants, is that you have reviewed a tiny fraction of a convention and after the fact decided, in defense of that review, to complain that there wasn’t enough things to do, if you’d bothered to do any of them.
Your initial review covers no panels, only part of what was in the dealer room you did visit, and only one day of a multi-day convention. The complaints you are receiving are due to this disingenuous element of your review, one that is countered by factual reports on the event from other quarters. You’re welcome to your opinions on the event and some of your criticisms may have some merit. Most, however, are due to your own actions and choices.
For my own part, I found there was plenty to do. I was busy the entire three days of the convention, and for the extra days on either side of it that formed my vacation. I have no illusion that my response will change your mind in any way. I hope the next convention you go to is more your speed.
-Trent
about 1 month ago
FACT: You showed up for a few hours and went home because you were tired.
FACT: BotCon is a convention that caters to both the hardcore collectors, diehard fans and the casual fan. Different shows offer different experiences based on the investment you make in the show, both time wise and monetarily.
FACT: You did not review the convention. You did the equivalent of reviewing the first 15 minutes of a movie and then said the ending suck.
FACT: You have resorted to name calling and continually use tired phrases like “Fail” to describe things you don’t like.
OPINION: I have hesitated in saying it, but the truth seems to be that you were upset that your “uniquely unique” panel was not put on the schedule and that rubbed you the wrong way.
BotCon offers a variety of panel and seminar offerings depending on the year and the schedule availability. Fans are often treated to MSTF, but that had to be dropped this year because of the schedule.
FINAL FACT: You have gotten the attention you wanted.
I wonder if that is such a good thing…
about 1 month ago
FACT: In the YBMW review (and related blog posts) we are talking about BotCon 2010.
And there is no reason anyone should be saying anything against this knowing that is what you were reviewing.
FACT: BotCon only provided two rooms of entertainment for attendees – a dealers room and a panels room.
Again. No one has seemed to be able to prove otherwise.
FACT: BotCon did not have tickets on sale for their event online until (approximately) May 18th – which is barely a month out from June 24th (the start of BotCon) – a mere 36 days from the show… and not ALL the tickets. General admission was only available at the door.
Yet again. No one has seemed to be able to prove otherwise.
FACT: Speaking of tickets online, BotCon failed to disclose ALL of their pricing information in advance.
And yet again. No one has seemed to be able to prove otherwise.
FACT: Speaking of information in advance, the BotCon schedule of events wasn’t announced until less than an month from the show.
Completely agree. Even first year conventions at least attempt some form of a schedule many times at a minimum of 90 days out.
FACT: Approximately 35% of the event schedule posted by BotCon was merely “autograph sessions.
Since I wasn’t there I cannot say for sure this is true.
But based on the schedule:
17% – Autograph
25% – Panel (assuming all things listed as panel are not autograph related)
Got a good laugh at the following items in the schedule:
-Kennedy Space Center Tour
-Dealer Unload and Drop Off
-Club Store open for Dealers Only
-Lunch Break (seriously?)
-Private Preview ends (with no beginning?)
-Dealer Set-up
I’ve never been to 1 “convention” good or bad that ever listed dealer specific information.
I almost feel like they should tell me when I should wake up and go to sleep.
So was this supposed to be a Transformers Convention at a Disney Resort or a Disney Resort that happen to have a gathering of fans of Transformers?
Definitely looks like the latter.
about 1 month ago
Richard, you’ve ratted off a list consisting mostly of points Trent and Pete have already addressed—the fact that there was a dealer room and a panel room (and I’m waiting for someone to explain why that’s a bad thing), the fact that there were teething problems with registration this year, etc. Why you chose to rehash all that is a puzzlement.
I’m also puzzled as to why you think a tour of the Kennedy Space Center is laughable. You do realise it was strictly optional, right?
And you’re woefully off base with your percentages, just like Tom and his buddy. Want a list of panels? Off the top of my head, there was one for Bob Budiansky, one for Paul Eiding and Scott McNeil, one for TF video games, one for IDW comics, one for the collectors’ club, for TFs Prime, and one for upcoming Hasbro product. Oh, and one for Peter Cullen, but some people were just too exhausted from walking around a single room to attend.
Also, it bears noting that a number of these panels REPEATED the very next day, just in case you missed them the first time.
So yeah, you really can’t say for certain, because as you yourself admit, you weren’t there for the whole thing. And neither were Tom and Co.
about 1 month ago
The first four facts aren’t really in dispute. However, I will say that there used to be other rooms at some of the earlier BotCons such as video rooms and con suites but these have proven much less popular in recent years. Personally, I attribute the lack of interest in video rooms to the release of complete series on DVD as well as ready access to them at pretty much any time via the Internet. It just isn’t that big a deal anymore.
Additionally, the fan art display used to be held in a separate room but now it’s in the Dealer’s Room where everyone can find it easily.
However, I find your fifth point somewhat inaccurate. DragonCon – the largest convention in the Southeast – typically releases their schedules online less than a week prior to the event and they still have guest and event cancellations at the last minute. I don’t know how many times I’ve gone to a convention to see a listed guest only to get there and find out they cancelled. It happens and as Trent said above Fun Publications has made it policy not to release information until everything has been 100% confirmed with all “i”s dotted and “t”‘s crossed. I suspect this is primarily because before they took over the convention it was not unheard of for guest lists to be revised, venues changed, and both events and/or toys cancelled at the very list minute due to unforseen circumstances. Many fans complained about it and this is the result. That way no one can complain that they were promised something they didn’t receive.
The Dealer info is probably because unlike dealers at many conventions, most TF dealers are also fans. They’re not there solely to make money but it helps support their hobby.
The schedule reads “Private Sales Room Experience” from 2p-5p and then in the 5p slot states that it ends. What is so hard to figure out about that?
The Kennedy Space Center Tour is on the schedule because local tours have always been a staple of Fun Pub conventions. However, they’re scheduled at least a day or two prior to the convention so that those in the tour don’t miss out on other things. It’s an optional activity that costs extra. No one is forced to attend and there’s nothing keeping fans from going there (or anywhere else) on their own. However, many fans fly in and don’t have access to ground transportation.
As for as scheduling lunch breaks, that’s admittedly for the staff in all likelihood. FP employs a small staff of both paid and volunteer workers who need to be able to have time off to eat. There are only so many people to cover for them and closing the Club Store for an hour isn’t going to hurt anyone. Maybe it doesn’t need to be on the schedule. I don’t know but it doesn’t hurt to have it there.
-Mike
about 1 month ago
If stuff like “dealer set-up” doesn’t belong on a convention schedule, then “the date when online tickets and scheduling were available” doesn’t belong in a review of the convention. Let’s not try to pad our list with trivia that in no way effected–or likely was even noticed by–your average walk-in attendee.
And the number of programming rooms is likewise trivia, a focus on style over substance. Since zero percent of the actual programming was actually reviewed, what does it matter how many rooms the would-be reviewers failed to enter? Would it have been better to have the comic panel, the Cullen panel, and the upcoming toy panel all at once in 3 different rooms?
about 1 month ago
No Trent, I was hoping when I arrived that there was more to do when I got there. That there must have been something that was missing from the posted schedule or even the schedule from the back of our press credentials. My whole thought process was, “Surely this can’t be everything?! This is BotCon!” As I waited in line for 4 hours, I realized that yes… sadly, that was it. There was nothing more.
We reviewed and commented on the the ‘at-the-door’ experience of BotCon 2010. Every other discussion I have read is from that of your die hard fans; those willing to put forth the high dollars for your limited collector pieces. That would be like me posting in my own private forum and expecting anything less than ego stroking.
We never reviewed or gave opinions on anything we did not see. We did comment on the fact that we could not see it. What I did find extremely asinine was that you would have a 4-Day event, and have press credentials were only available on Day 3. Then the ‘fans’ complain that we didn’t see something. Well, we didn’t see it because your organization did not make it available for us to report on.
Taking opinion from the ‘Registered Attendees’ only is very much making sure you always get the best possible press. Heaven forbid the common man walk-up and purchase an event badge. How dare we have an opinion? Tom keeps calling BotCon 2010 a trade show; I don’t even get it that credit. With an IP as strong as Transformers, you just phoned it in. My only question is, why bother having ‘General Admission’ sales? Is it just so you have a group to make your ‘Registered Attendees’ feel they are above? Pete@BotCon’s comments make me think Fun Entertainment just doesn’t give a damn about them.
You and Pete point out that we saw only 4 hours of the ‘convention’. As much as you would like to dismiss it (or try to forget about it, because it was so poorly organized and run) the line waiting for your event is part of the event.
about 1 month ago
Although I think Tom’s style of communication is often harsh, abrasive, vulgar and immature I still think his core message is valuable. I honestly hated the one time I saw his Transformer panel at Supercon ’09 in Miiami and I walked out after only ten minutes into it but I saw many other Transformer fans in the audience that day who ate it up. So whether he was at Botcon four hours or four days doesn’t matter-he knew he wasn’t going to like the show just as I knew I wouldn’t like his panel. But I feel there should be a place for him and fans like him at Botcon and a good step in reaching out to that audience of more casual fans would have been to have his panel there at BC ’10. Just on name recognition alone he would have been a draw for convention going Floridians active in the con scene-of which there are many, especially in Orlando. Expecting the organizers to know this ahead of time is probably unreasonable and unrealistic but I hope they eventually understand that incorporating local fan organizations like Tom’s into the show can drive attendance by creating more buzz at the local fan level. As Botcon reaches larger cities with more organized fandoms and as Transformers gets more mainstream, accepting help and inputs from the locals via their panel submissions could add that bit of tailored variety the casual style fan native to the area might be looking for.
I can also see how Tom may have felt slighted by having his panel turned down, especially since the organizers left him hanging for a while not knowing what the status of his panel submission was. But while that could have been handled better I don’t think Tom was in the right to do a review of the show after that point, whether it be positive or negative. Tom from an ethical standpoint I think you should have let someone else review the con for any site other than your blog. Any criticism you’d have is going to be viewed as sour grapes given the failed history you had trying to be a part of the show. It tainted your journalistic integrity and YouBentMyWookie should have saw that ethical dilemma coming a mile away. Again, it would have just been easier had Botcon accepted your panel and let you live or die by it, especially since the organizers are always soliciting panel inputs and suggestions on the club forums. For them to deny a panel-even one such as yours which I know wouldn’t have been well recieved by the reguar diehard Botcon “lemming” (as you put it)-gives the perception that those input requests are not as sincere as they seem. But they probably had their reasons and as Waly Disney would say, we must keep moving forward.
Tom I still feel as I did when I replied to your “Bigger isn’t always better” post-that Botcon caters mostly and listens only to the Primus level pre-registrant. But congratulations-I think you managed to get your voice heard without paying over $300. I only paid $140 as a Protoform level attendee, consequently I didn’t get the box set of toys, I got left out of the dinner and most of all I didn’t get to fill out a feedback form. While I appreciate not being forced to buy the box set, I do wish the dinner would be an a la carte option instead of attached to the Primus package. And I wish they’d put out that schedule more ahead of time so that at the very least I’d have something more concrete to look forward to. Those gripes and my disappointment at one of the scheduled guests not showing up-the man who designed the very first Transformer-seem like such miniscule squabbles compared to the roboplastic apocalypse you’ve unleashed. But as long as Botcon continues to hand out feedback forms only to those who pay the most money, the only outlet that lesser paying attendees will have to air their grievances will be these types of blogs and website con reports written by more casual fans. And I’ve got a feeling that as Botcon’s attendance grows there will be more Tom Crooms out there. Hopefully Botcon is listening.
As long as Botcon continues to limit the
about 1 month ago
My apologies-it was Joey who called the die hard repeat Botcon goers “lemmings”. I quoted words Tom never wrote.
about 1 month ago
Have been watching for how ever long this has been going on.
I would typify myself as casual and not overly enthusiastic fan of the original cartoon, the original toys, and the UK comic series.
I have a connection to Tom and Snackpants. It would be stretching all definitions to say that I am a blindly loyal follower of Tom: in fact in the past I
have been highly critical of him when my opinion has differed.
I will say that I have been a good friend to Snackpants for almost thirteen years; but I do not let that hamper my opinion when I think he is wrong.
And no, I did not attend BotCon this year or any other: mainly because I forgot until four o’clock on Saturday afternoon
Trent (mainly):
Fact 1: What if I don’t care about the newest, polished fecal matter coming from Hasbro or IDW? While I think Stan Bush is a really nice guy; what if I
didn’t?
Fact 2: Every convention I have ever been to has had at least:
1) A panel/signing room
2) A workshop
3) A dealers room
4) A video gaming room
5) A video room
(Word-nazi pick: it consecutive not concurrent. Consecutive is one after the other. Concurrent is at the same time.)
Not wanting to miss anything at a con is only really relevant to someone who pays a shit-ton of money to be there. I would much rather have too much to see
than not enough: especially if I was to go nuts and shell out for the Big Gun. How you deal with two panels you want to go to at the same time is: as
mentioned elsewhere, multiple instances throughout the weekend. Or also scheduling wildly different events at the same time.
Do you actually know how hard it is to set up a video room? Not that hard and certainly not that expensive. At this point it is set-it and practically
forget-it technology. You’re not setting it up for the die-hard fan, you’re setting it up to have something for people who aren’t into the other panels at
that same time. You’re setting it up for the casual fan who doesn’t own the whole Gen 1 series on DVD, or who hasn’t seen any of the Japanese series’.
You have workshops for people who do papercraft, figures, or art of the characters; or who want help with their fan-fics.
Fact 3: all I can say here is that it wouldn’t hurt to also have lowest-level general admission available prereg.
Fact 4: Agree, all pricing should be upfront if and when possible.
Fact 5: Have to agree some with Trent. No convention is going to have everything perfectly locked down even a month out: best hopes yes, reality no.
For guests you say, “here’s who has agreed to show up barring a change of plans.” If they make it they make it. If they don’t you tell people they had a
schedule conflict, or they got a role or a job to work.
For events you tell people before that, “here’s some panels we’re working on bringing you.” At the con you give them the actual schedule, and make
corrections at the door and on a board near registration or some other major focus point.
Life goes on, there’s always next year.
Fact 6: Dealer set-up is their business, not my business. Staff lunch and breaks are not my business. Those are behind the curtain activities: the
schedule should be for the show.
They’re four lines on the schedule; but they could be four lines on other pieces of paper that you don’t print out a couple thousand times.
You know how you get better reviews from the press? Give the press a better show. Limit the number of press passes, be selective on some neutral criteria, and increase press access. Have some kind of lottery amongst the press badges for access to the super-limited availability events like the dinner: i.e. two or three press at the dinner.
Pete:
From your own description and the description of many others trying to defend this years con, you have described an event that far and away caters to the hardcore collector and the extreme die-hard fan. The casual fan is marginalized by the loss of entry level events: discussions, videos, overview panels, etc.
Where is the moderated discussion of Beast Wars, or the Japanese series’ for the casual fan who never saw them? Where is some kind of introduction panel for the IDW or UK Marvel comics?
If I’m never introduced to them, I’ll never become a fan of them.
I have seen Tom and Snackpant’s panel: as I saw it, it worked better for a less specific con. However, it would work for BotCon, if split into multiple over-view panels each focused on a different series: kind of like how you expand an essay into a thesis.
Suspsy:
Bob Budiansky: don’t care, artist, not my cup of tea.
Paul Eiding: barely care, but only for his live action work.
Scott McNeil: barely care about his Dawn of War work.
Peter Cullen: care, Optimus “fucking” Prime, and K.A.R.R.
Stan Bush: nice guy, but I only am in it for his music.
Not a toy collector so all arguments for Hasbro are lost on me. Have never read IDW series, so it doesn’t have the allure it may for you.
WTF are Collector’s club and TF prime?
TTT:
Date tickets goes on sale is important to the fan; what time on Wednesday or Thursday the dealers set up isn’t. The date is relevant because it gives an idea how far in advance tickets go on sale the next year.
Your quip about conflicting panels: not really, I would have only gone to the Cullen panel of those three. Besides as has been proven, IDW and Hasbro were hyping the shit out of their products and had other showings of those panels.
More programming rooms is the potential for more programs. More programs is potentially more choices of what to do. Tis better to have the option available and not use it, than to have no option at all.
And for all:
Get over it. The con is over for the year. Make next year better.
My thought:
What kind of convention cuts programming so people can go spend their money elsewhere?
about 1 month ago
“”Not a toy collector so all arguments for Hasbro are lost on me. Have never read IDW series, so it doesn’t have the allure it may for you.”"
That pretty much sums you up. Botcon is not for you. There may have been a few areas that interested you, like Cullen, but there’s really no point in you bothering with it for the cost you have to pay for those few areas. I’ve never been but its not really for casual fans, especially people not excited about the upcoming toylines, comics and the next TV show: Transformers Prime.
As for introductory panels for older and obscure comics and shows; if someone isn’t bothered enough to look them up online for themselves, why would they be bothered to pay to get into Botcon to be told about them? The tfwiki will tell you all you need to know if you need introducing to anything you feel like you may be interested in. You don’t need to wait until Botcon for that. And if such a introductory panel existed, they would just repeat what is on the tfwiki, so why bother?
about 1 month ago
@Suspsy Thanks for “not” reading what I wrote and just deciding to be ignorant.
And listing 2+ people for a single event does not make it “multiple” events. The percentages I quoted are directly based on the content of the pdf available on the Bot Con Website. Surely it’s possible things were added, changed or removed.
@Mike As per your quote “The Dealer info is probably because unlike dealers at many conventions, most TF dealers are also fans. They’re not there solely to make money but it helps support their hobby.”
In translation: “This was not a Convention since the dealers were not really dealers.”
@TTT: Quoting you “If stuff like “dealer set-up” doesn’t belong on a convention schedule, then “the date when online tickets and scheduling were available” doesn’t belong in a review of the convention.”
These two things have nothing to do with eachother. Nice try but you failed on this one.
Biggest problem with the BotCon Website:
Almost everything is a pdf obviously thrown together by some marketing staff in a last minute endeavor leaving no time for any of the content of the pdfs to be made into pages for view on a website normally.
about 1 month ago
Dave, you clearly are a very casual fan, since you apparently think Bob Budiansky is only an artist, when in fact he was responsible for coming up with the characters of Optimus Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, Grimlock, Soundwave, and pretty everyone else from the original series. As a result, he was an EXTREMELY popular guest, and both his panels were packed to capacity.
The fact that you don’t personally care about the majority of the guests is utterly irrelevant to my point, which is that there were quite a few panels going on at Botcon which Tom and his sidekick chose to skip altogether. It’s no different from you complaining that an Italian restaurant sucks because you don’t like pasta. That’s your fault, not the restaurant’s.
The reason there are no video rooms at Botcon is because their popularity has taken a nosedive over the past ten years due to the wide availability of the TFs series on DVD. I know this because I’ve been to every Botcon since 2000, and I witnessed the video room go from semi-popular to a complete waste of space.
And finally, it was perfectly reasonable of FP to grant a large chunk of space for people to visit the many theme parks in Disney World, or to lounge by the swimming pool, or simply chill out with fellow fans and trade toys/parts in hotel rooms. Believe it or not, many people who attend Botcon aren’t solely interested in giant robots. I spent an entire week in Orlando because I wanted to do the parks. And it was awesome. I’m eternally grateful to FP for giving me an opportunity to relive my childhood several times over.
I eagerly await being called a yes-man.
about 1 month ago
Thank you, Richard, for that complete strawman of an argument. I especially love how you accuse me of trying to pass off the Paul Eiding/Scott McNeil panel as a “multiple event.”
Again, the panels listed on the Botcon schedule do not come up to “25%,” not unless one’s calculator is defective.
And no, nothing from that schedule was added, changed or removed. You would know that if you had actually been there. But you were not.
Oh, and dealers aren’t really dealers if they happen to be fans of what they happen to be selling? Wow. That’s a new one. An awesome one too. Thanks for the good laugh.
about 1 month ago
Joey, If you would have contacted me before the show I would have been happy to make a schedule for you of things to do on Saturday. I know this is after the fact, but lets give it a shot now…
Since I assume you had your autograph from Peter Cullen by 9:30, lets map out the rest of the day, a day that ANY walk in could have enjoyed even without waiting in line for Mr. Cullen:
9:30-10:00 – Bob Budiansky Autograph
10:00-11:00 – Check out the Dealers in the Exhibitor room and buy some cool toys. Check out Art display.
11:00-12:00 – Hasbro Marketing panel
12:00-12:30 – Lunch
12:30-1:00 – Check out the Autobot Alliance obstacle course, take some pictures with cosplayers, Giant Bumblebee, Motormaster.
1:00-2:00 – Paul Eiding and Scott McNeil Panel. Ask questions.
2:00-3:00 – Peter Cullen Panel. Ask questions.
3:00-4:00 – Paul Eiding and Stan Bush Autographs (I assume you would skip Scott McNeil)
4:00-5:00 – IDW comics Panel
ALSO note your schedule could have been amended to include: Meet with Hasbro designers, Demo War for Cybertron game (yes, I left that off because you already have the game and a bigger tv), Have IDW artists do a sketch, go to Activision panel, shop at Club store, Scott McNeil Autograph and finally Hasbro Studios.
Joey, THIS WAS the at door experience on Saturday at BotCon 2010.
One SIMPLE question. Do you agree or disagree? Was this or was this not what was offered?
about 1 month ago
Yes Pete, I agree with what was offered. I find it hilarious that you find that as an exceptable schedule for an event.
Oi vey… a SCHEDULED Lunch. I am so glad you put that part of the event up, because no one would have believed me if I had said, “You know BotCon 2010 had a scheduled Lunch?” They would have looked at me like I had 3 heads.
Tom and I, after reading Esteban’s original comments, decided to participate in BotCon 2010 as ‘General Admission’ attendees, to validate or disprove his comments. Sadly, and to my surprise, he was correct.
Your schedule still boils down to 3 things. A line, an exhibitor/dealer room, and a panel room. I would like to thank you for putting in writing that the event ended at 5:00pm. Yet another fact no one would have believed. 9:30-5:00 with a half-hour lunch. Don’t put in a hard day there guys. Don’t want you to strain yourself or something. Those 7 hour days can be gruuuuuueling.
Esteban, you are correct, I should not hold the fans accountable for anything but giving BotCon money for something so subpar.
In regards to our panel… *shrug* Looking back, it was better that we were politely turned down. First, we would not have been a proper fit for this event. Second, I would have felt a need to keep my opinion to myself because I would have been part of the event.
Lastly, I did not review ‘the ending’ of your movie. I said your movie was so bad, I walked out.
about 1 month ago
TrentTroop,
Thanks for taking the time to address the issues I presented in a clear and concise manner. It’s refreshing to see your post (even if I don’t completely agree with it) over the “his opinion sucks because he hates Beast Wars” posts I’ve had to dig through.
Regarding Fact #1: I disagree – our review WAS a valid review of the covention based on the limited exposure. The fact that BotCon failed to keep attendees drawn in and entertained to the point that we chose to leave is (quite frankly) the core of where we felt BotCon failed as a “convention” and presented itself as a trade show. We reviewed everything that we did take the time to see while there before coming to the conclusion that there wasn’t much offered… and for the record, we did point out Stan Bush specifically in the review – so I’m curious as to why you stated that we failed to do so.
A major element to help clarify some things for you is that you are only reading the opinion of two people in the review, but we spoke to and ran into a NUMBER of people at the convention who voiced the same concerns to us. We had friends (some show runners for other fandom conventions) who showed up at the convention and left before us due to the lack of programming – which leads me to…
Regarding Fact #2: People are going back and forth on this argument – so allow me to make it abundently clear by going the boring “BY THE NUMBERS” route to explain it.
-According to the BotCon schedule, the Seminars/Panel Room was located in Dolphin Convention Center Northern Hemisphere E – upstairs from the Exhibitor Sales Room. (http://www.botcon.com/BotCon10/BC10panels.pdf)
-According to the Dolphin Convention Center’s website, the room holds 1100 people in a theatre style set up (assuming you had all the available space for Salon E. When I was in the panel room (to see where it was) this seemed more or less correct. (http://www.swandolphinmeetings.com/space/floorplans/m-ballrm.html)
-Thus, BotCon generated programming with a capacity for 1100 people at any given time with the ONLY other choice existing to walk around the dealers room.
I’ve read people complaining about my estimate that there were approximately 3000 people at BotCon. If there WERE more than that, then the facts I presented here are event worse! BotCon had the expectation that they only needed to entertain about 1000 attendees at any given time by offering only ONE alternative to the dealers room.
Assuming my estimates are correct, then BOTCON ONLY PROVIDED ENTERTAINMENT FOR 1/3 OF ITS ATTENDEES OUTSIDE OF THE DEALERS ROOM AT ANY GIVEN TIME. This constitutes a lack of programming in my book.
Regarding Fact #3: I understand that there are going to be issues with operating a convention/show – and appreciate you acknowledging the issue existed. My point of contention, though, is that this isn’t the BotCon team’s “first rodeo” AND it is (presumably) a professionally run event. I can be forgiving of actors forgetting their lines at a community theater… but at a professional one, the expectations are a bit higher.
Regarding Fact #4: Again – thank you for the acknowledgement… and refer to #3.
Regarding Fact #5: I’ll admit that my frustration on this fact is due to finding out VERY late in the game that the panel Green Mustard Entertainment (http://www.greenmustard.com) offered to BotCon wasn’t given the yes or no until the proverbial 11th hour. The TIMING is the issue, though, NOT the rejection. Allow me to clarify:
-A number of folks are replying here (and posting on various forums) regarding my older post about DARE! The Tranformers Panel Ultimate not appearing at BotCon. If you read the original post closely, you’ll note that while I am disappointed in the fact that the panel wasn’t approved, I was frustrated with the obvious lack of organization with BotCOn in general that led to the late notification of this fact. Not all of our events are going to get approved at every convention… something myself and my team are fully aware of and can deal with. We try to present a certain level of “professional teamwork,” though, with events that we might be (or are) working with. The issues I was seeing with BotCon extended to months before that post – but I kept them quiet out of respect for the fact that if we WERE going to perform at the show, it would not be appropriate to speak publicly about the issues as a professional courtesy. In short: you don’t shit where you sleep. Once we officially heard that our panel was not going to appear at BotCon, I was free to be vocal with my concerns. Then the offer appeared to attend the show as press, and I took the opportunity to see the event’s operation first hand.
-The expectation of events to be presented ahead of time for attendees is not unheard of… especially in the case of a travelling show. As an example, Green Mustard Entertainment (as Wasabi Anime) is booked to appear at Gen Con 2010. The convention boasts 28k attendees last year and (yes) they will feature DARE! The Transformers Panel Ultimate. That said, the information regarding these events have been available on the Gen Con website for some time to allow attendees to better plan their time at the show. I know that BotCon is not to the scale of Gen Con – but BotCon HAS been running for a number of years and (in my opinion) the expectation for organization should be higher the the local shows which seemed to be more organized.
Regarding Fact #6: Attendee information and vendor information are separate elements that shouldn’t appear together… unless it is a TRADE SHOW (which is dealer intensive instead of fan intensive.) I am more than happy to dig out the dozens of convention guides I have from across the U.S. and show a lack of “dealer load in” info in any of them. My FACT was the percentage of the schedule that was only autograph sessions was 35% – and this is followed by my conclusion that the schedule was padded with unneeded information. I think I have addressed that the schedule is lighter than it should be in #2.
_
Trent, the key element (as stated before) in the failure of BotCon 2010 is the fact that it failed to hold the interest of two casual general admission Transformers fans. This, in turn, led to us leaving before the conclusion of the show. The opinions and review were well thought out and are now being reinforced in these lengthy discussions that have appeared on my blog and on various forums. If you do work for Fun Publications as you state, then I would impress upon you the need to look past the OMGDRAMAZ of most of the discussions and walk away with some strong criticism of your show to make it better in the future.
As far as your statement
“Most, however, are due to your own actions and choices.”
We can agree to disagree. BotCon failed to present appropriate information regarding its show ahead of time and then also failed to provide enough entertainment of the casual Transformers fan… this action lead to a reaction: two attendees becoming underwhelmed with what was offered and leaving before the conclusion of the show.
I challenge you and your team to do better in 2012.
about 1 month ago
Regarding all the other replies… I’m not ignoring them – and will do my best to reply in the coming day or so. We just returned from Ancient City Con last night and we have some work to get completed in the next couple of days. I’ll keep reading though.
about 1 month ago
Oi vey… I really need more sleep… ‘exceptable’… Where in the world did THAT come from!?!? Acceptable… F7 for the win!
about 1 month ago
@Suspy : Really?
If this is true then not being there does not change the fact that the schedule was accurate as per your quote: “And no, nothing from that schedule was added, changed or removed.”
The Schedule in question:
http://www.botcon.com/BotCon10/BC10schedule.pdf
Autograph Sessions: 9 – 17% (18 Separated by person/session)
Panels/Film: 14 – 26%
Workshops: 2 – 4%
Dealer Related: 5 – 9%
Contest: 4 – 7%
Other: 13 – 24%
Lunch: 1 – 2%
Unknown Classification: 6 – 11%
Total: 54
14/54 = approximately 25.9% …. 26% not 25% wow I guess I was wrong by 1 measly %.
Funny thing about this is that it should be for your argument not against it yet you still were upset about it.
And my point was that Trent and Pete did not really refutiate anything. If anyone is a strawman each of them actually is and you’re just trying to get into an argument.
The point was that Mike’s quote “The Dealer info is probably because unlike dealers at many conventions, most TF dealers are also fans. They’re not there solely to make money but it helps support their hobby.” supports the “Trade Show” aka “Not a Convention” theory.
Why do I feel like you’re just looking to get into an argument with someone?
Would you like to debate the size of the moon based on different points of view from different distances, locations and at different times of the year on multiple planets next?
about 1 month ago
Joey:
“Don’t put in a hard day there guys. Don’t want you to strain yourself or something. Those 7 hour days can be gruuuuuueling.”
Wasn’t that the whole point of your “review”? Oh man, walking this dealer room for 2 hours is so hard I can’t even get onto the ESCALATOR to go see the panel room!
about 1 month ago
Richard, it doesn’t take a mathematician to point out that those figures you came up with are only applicable if a person attends the convention for the entire duration of the weekend, and participates in absolutely EVERYTHING, including standing in line for every autograph session for the entire two period while magically attending panels that are taking place at the same time. For a person who selectively attends panels/shops the dealer room/waits in line for autographs, the amount of time spent can break down to any variety of percentiles.
I’d be very interested to see how Pete is incorrect in his presentation of all the events that were available to ALL attendees on Saturday and Sunday, but which Tom and Joey deliberately chose not to attend because they were so very, very tired after only four hours. Please do enlighten me.
And I’m still waiting for you to explain how being a fan somehow invalidates one’s status as a dealer, let alone how it invalidates Botcon’s status as a convention.
I do enjoy a good argument, but you really aren’t giving me much of one.
about 1 month ago
Joey, that schedule was JUST for you. That was not an “official” schedule. I was trying to make a point, one you did agree with but then quickly tried to divert focus from by mentioning I had scheduled a “hypothetical” lunch. Getting BACK to the point, you DO AGREE that the activities I listed were available and you chose not to participate.
Furthermore, the schedule does NOT boil down to “3″ things as you put them. You try to make it sound as if those 3 things are the “events” while in fact they are locations. A line, a Dealer room and a panel room is a LOCATION. Event wise I count just in my “hypothetical” schedule 19 different things you could have done AFTER Peter Cullen and you did maybe 2. That was your choice. But the show offered a Transformers convention experience for any walk in attendee.
Richard, his point was many Dealers also collect and are fans. Many of them do this as a profession as well. When was it wrong to also enjoy and be part of your profession? Also, what exactly do you want us to refutiate?
- Yes, there were two main rooms for show activities. And the exhibitor hall (Like MANY exhibitor halls) had several activities WITHIN said hall.
- Registration went up late this year, has been discussed in the past and has been discussed at length.
- The exact schedule ALWAYS goes up near convention time but the listing of events, guests and so on are announced through both updates and through the online brochure which goes up months before the show. Did you read that?
- The FAQ page at botcon.com does mention that Gen Admission must purchase an Autograph band. This is one point I will be happy to concede, that this info should be on the General Admission page.
TTT, the irony of Joey saying that is pretty evident. Furthermore, Staff works on Saturday from essentially 7:30 am till 10Pm or later most years
Tom, there is a show in 2011. In Pasadena. That show last year drew several thousand people and it should be even bigger since it will be a movie year again.
Finally, it is clear nothing that is said by those who actually “WENT” to the show is going to change your minds. I will only note that the majority of what I have read from fans who are not elitists, who are not blind followers, fans who voice their legitimate concerns about things show related and then often have them addressed, these fans reject your analysis.
I still contend, and will continue to contend, that if you are going to do a review (you were press, right?), it is YOUR JOB to REVIEW everything, whether you like it or not. Whether it holds your interest or not. Then you let the reader decide if it was an event worth going to.
The general consensus from fans of all types is that it was a great BotCon for them, and really, that is all that matters as long as each year the show keeps getting better and the energy is still there from both those behind the scenes and the fans.
about 1 month ago
Tom, Joey, you can insist upon the validity of your profoundly unfair review till you’re both blue in the face, but the unavoidable fact remains that the reason you didn’t enjoy yourselves was solely your own fault, not FP’s.
You chose to wake up early and stand in line for Peter Cullen’s autograph for four hours. You chose not to participate in the video game presentation, the Hasbro display cases, and the Nerf game because none of them appealed to the two of you personally. Note that you failed in your review to mention the long lines for the Nerf game, or the huge crowds of excited fans at the display cases, or the masses at the video game booth. How can you claim that the Nerf game was only appealing to eight-year olds with short attention spans unless you actually tried it out? How can you say that the display cases contained 1,000 repaints unless you actually bothered to look at them? Your review was downright shameful in its lack of content, fairness, and honesty.
You chose to leave without attending a single panel because you were so very tired. What was preventing you from seeking out a couch and taking a breather? For a couple of guys who boast about being Professionally Professional Convention Attendees who demand non-stop, overlapping entertainment, you sure seemed to run out of steam quickly. Or do you usually get carted around in wheelchairs at all the other cons you attend?
You two made the choice to have a bad time, and you have no one to blame but yourselves.
about 1 month ago
So now you’re deciding we should not take into account the overall schedule yet that is exactly what one of the contention points has been. Geez, sorry I guess you want your cake and to eat it too.
What schedule would you like me to use?
If you can tell me exactly which items from the posted schedule are for General Admission Ticket Holders only then I’d be happy to do the simple percentages.
General Admission:
Saturday, June 26, 2010 – 10:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.
Sunday, June 27, 2010 – 9:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.
Note the bottom of the General Admission Webpage @ http://www.botcon.com/BotCon10/con10genadm.cfm: “(Keep watching this site or call (817) 448-9863 for more information!)”
What part of this do you not get?
The point was that Mike’s quote “The Dealer info is probably because unlike dealers at many conventions, most TF dealers are also fans. They’re not there solely to make money but it helps support their hobby.” supports the “Trade Show” aka “Not a Convention” theory.
Fine let’s spell it out for you…
The fact that dealer related information is on the all-purpose schedule dictates this is not a convention but more of a trade show.
If you don’t want to call this an argument then I guess I’ll have to call you a troll.
about 1 month ago
@Pete:
Per you “Event wise I count just in my “hypothetical” schedule 19 different things you could have done AFTER Peter Cullen and you did maybe 2.”
How the hell do you get 19 things after that?
After Saturday 9:00AM Peter Cullen Autograph Session:
-Autograph Sessions: 6 (3 different)
-Panels: 10 (9 different)
-Dealer Room: 1
That’s 13 different things on the schedule for a General Admission Ticket.
And even this is under the impression that the Autograph Sessions don’t require extra money.
Additionally, setting up a dealer room, closing a showroom, and drawings for contests DO NOT count.
about 1 month ago
Richard, I should not have said events as that can be a confusing term for this discussion. My point was there were plenty of activities that one can take part in and not all are on the schedule. When you go to SDCC, does the main exhibitor hall count as “one” activity? When I went to SDCC and went into the hall I don’t say I just did one thing.
ASIDE from just the Dealers in the exhibitor room at BotCon, there were other activities and features. You could get autographs, demo WFC at Activision, do the Autobot Alliance course, check out Hasbro’s exhibitor booth AND their toy showcase, get pictures with the gathering of cosplayers, check out the art contest and so on…
My POINT was there was plenty to fill up a day for any walk in and aside from the scheduled events there were many activities one could participate in.
And every years the events and activities change. And the fans have a big say it what stays and what goes.
about 1 month ago
My point is that attempting to break down the schedule into percentiles is ultimately pointless and inaccurate due to individual human behaviour. I spent exactly zero seconds standing in line for autographs, as did many other attendees. Ergo, those numbers you went to all the trouble of calculating are inapplicable. People who actually attended the convention would know this. You do not.
In response to your bizarre inquiry about which events were open to the general public on Saturday and Sunday, I believe Pete has already provided that answer, several times now.
And you’ve repeated yourself a couple of times now, yet you still haven’t explained how the dealers at Botcon weren’t really dealers because they were *GASP* actually fans of the merchandise they were selling. Do you also believe that the dealers at Star Trek conventions aren’t really dealers because they like Captain Kirk? Or the dealers at Star Wars conventions aren’t really dealers because they own their own toy light sabers?
Calling me a troll won’t help your case, Richard. Quite the opposite.
about 1 month ago
Also, it bears repeating that since autograph times overlapped with panels on both Saturday and Sunday, Richard’s calculations are even more inaccurate.
about 1 month ago
My god, do you have ANY IDEA WHATSOEVER, how much you two, Tom and Joey, sound like pure and utter BITCHPANTSES.
Your initial review made it apparent. You’ve got a serious hate-on for anything that came out after 1986, you hated BotCon before going in because they DARED refuse your panel, an utterly useless panel for any fan who’s been to TF websites for the past 15 years or bothered to visit one of the Transformers wikis out there, you hate Beast Wars, etc. and you didn’t even appear to bother putting out the energy to try and find things beyond a few hours of pointless wandering in the dealer room.
I hadn’t seen a review this biased in years, to be frank.
It’s sad you didn’t attend the Hall of Fame inauguration. Seeing Beast Wars’s Dinobot being introduced to the HOF over guys like Soundwave, Grimlock and Shockwave, introduced via a FAN VOTE no less, may well have given your clearly out-of-shape hearts aneurysms that would’ve ridden the fandom as a whole of two of the vilest, whiniest GEEWUNNERS I’ve ever laid eyes upon.
about 1 month ago
I’ll let the detractors have the last word. All I’ll say at this point is the convention will be back for its 17th year at BotCon 2011 in Pasadena!
about 1 month ago
So basically, you went to a convention that caters to a specific fan base with mostly interest in only certain sections on it. You pretty much stayed in a long line, looked at a few movie toys (that you already know you don’t like) instead of the toys that were aimed more towards your taste (that you must have overlooked… that were in those same cases).
You didn’t go to any panels because of lack of interest in what they had to offer (despite content on the particular section you like, guessing you might not know the names or who they actually are). Oh, and you did a ‘accurate’ head count based on looking around.
So your condemning a 3-4 day convention, which is full of activities for said attendees (regardless of what you decree based on anime conventions, which BotCon isn’t…), is always packed with fans who come practically ever year (But nobodies opinion but your own matters right? Because your a pro at going to anime conventions.), and generally regarded as the Superbowl of the fandom (The TF fandom, not the guys who like anime and have a Optimus Prime shirt from Hot Topic group, not intentionally trying to insult or be a smartass, but really it is a different group).
Your basing your whole opinion on standing in a long line for a popular voice actor (did you expect his to be short?) and heaven forbid offers stuff that the fandom that it was intended for would like?
I’m not going to talk about your panel, because I haven’t seen it. However, it looks like it wouldn’t have a place at the convention. Why? Well, from how you’ve described it, it’s mostly based on your opinions and not facts. Not to mention, since you know conventions so much, since this is an official event, everything has to be ran through Hasbro first.
Do you really think the official governing body of the franchise is going to be ok with a panel at their show that proclaims official product sucks? Thats just short sighted and egotistical. I would expect somebody who deals with conventions as much to know this.
I’m going to do my best and not look down my nose at you (something you avoided in your posts about our fandom and convention), but it really doesn’t take much thought to see that this convention isn’t for you. This is a Transformers convention for fans of Transformers both past to present that is pretty long running. It’s not some half truth panel at some sci fi or anime convention.
I doubt you’d ever come back, as really you only came when it was convenient for you. But if you ever do, try actually doing something. Or maybe have more than a basic idea of everything before charging in as though you have a degree in it. Even the attendee’s who only like certain aspects and spit vile about the stuff the don’t like know better.
I’m sorry you didn’t have a good time, myself I had a blast, as I always do.
about 1 month ago
I’m wondering if there is anyone who bought a General Admission Ticket (and no add-ons what-so-ever) that also believes they had a “good” time.
Just curious.
about 1 month ago
Man some of you need to pull the Starscream repaint out of your ass and actually read. Ofcourse the review is going to be biased… ITS HIS PERSONAL BLOG. Jesus Christ you guys are bitching like Tom impregnated your sister then kicked her down a flight of stairs all while insulting your favorite cartoon show.
While their review is mostly based on the general walk in price (which you should pay attention to since you make a big deal about next year being a movie year.) They have a damn good point in the fact that you had such a great time because you paid all the extra cash for it. When I bought my 4 day pass to SDCC, you know what I got with my cheaper than botcon ticket? EVERYTHING! I can go to any panel, I can stand in any autograph line and I can get the chance to buy any SDCC exclusive I want. Botcon is clearly marketed for the hardcore transformer fan who has extra income, not the generic family who enjoyed the movies, or the dad of 5 who remembers the show growing up. Yes, the show did not appeal to Tom & Joey, this does not mean it was a bad show! This is their opinion based on the years of convention experience they both have.
TTT & Pete I’m sure you guys had a blast, and it’s cute that you want to defend Botcon till you’re blue in the face but are you guys seriously having an argument over the internet? If you don’t like the viewpoint that the review was written from MAYBE… and this is just a wild thought. You should cater to ALL types of fans.
about 1 month ago
Most likely.
about 1 month ago
I feel the need to speak up here. I was working at the convention representing a company that kept me busy all weekend long. When I first found out that I wouldn’t have time to experience BotCon (a convention I’ve always wanted to attend, but could never afford to out of the area) I was crushed. However, the first moment I stepped into that tiny dealer’s room and read about the few panels that were being offered I realized I wasn’t missing anything.
Of course it’s neat getting to see the merch that’s coming soon, but like all hoity toity SDCC “announcements,” that information is just going to end up online anyways.
Of course it’s great to get toys there. I bought several. However, it wasn’t anything I, once again, couldn’t get online. Additionally, I’ve already seen most of that merchandise at other conventions.
There seemed to be some artists there that were doing sketches, but I couldn’t find any information about it.
I have been to many conventions over the years and pretty much every one of them offers tons of stuff to do. There’s a FAN run convention coming up that has a schedule grid jam packed FULL. Don’t like a panel being offered? There’s several more happening at the same time that you might like. Or there’s a gameshow or contest you can participate in. Or there’s a celebrity signing or workshop. Or you could go to a viewing room or gaming room. These people do it for the love and they do a great job year after year. I say that referencing fan conventions in general. They started it all from money out of their own wallets. Can you imagine what they could do if they had corporate financing like Hasbro?
BotCon was its own kind of world. The hard core people may be fine with that, but the local Transformers fans are not.
about 1 month ago
GOOD MORNING!
Since this post has gone so deep – I’ve replied to individuals here:
http://www.tomcroom.com/?p=6582
about 1 month ago
@62 6c 6f 77 20 6d 65
To clarify, Tom came to the show on a press pass, so I feel there should be a standard to his reporting i.e actually attending the events that are being reported on.
This comment you made “When I bought my 4 day pass to SDCC, you know what I got with my cheaper than botcon ticket? ” does not make any sense. A BotCon General Admission ticket is $18 (FAR less than a SDCC ticket). If you paid the full $300 for BotCon, you get everything you get at SDCC, any Autograph, any panel and the toys are included in that price. Plus all the other events obviously.
Anyways, felt that should be made clear…
about 1 month ago
@Pete and @62 6c 6f 77 20 6d 65
To clarify, I was there with a Press Pass – but was forced to spend $50 to gain early access to start writing my review. Also, press is not granted access for the 4-Day event until the final two days – and that access is limited to the already limited events.
Anyways, felt that should be made clear…
about 1 month ago
No, you spent $50 so you could get an Autograph from Peter Cullen. Because you are a fan. Please just be straight up. All other Press, from news outlets and so on, they come to “report” on the event, not to stand in line to meet a guest.
about 1 month ago
And that has been made VERY clear at this point…
about 1 month ago
No, Pete, I spent $50 to get in early to the convention to begin reporting on seeing people meet “the voice of Optimus Prime” for the story angle we had devised… I spent $25 for an autograph because I was a fan.
A $25 fee that, it has already been conceded, was NEVER listed on any BotCon material OR the website before the show. Thus reiterating BotCon’s catering to the top tier ticket holders with little to no attention to the general admission attendees – which (again) is the perspective our article is written from.
Let’s be CRYSTAL clear about ALL the facts, Pete.
about 1 month ago
You were in line at 5:30am to meet Peter Cullen. It was $75 to guarantee that you could get that Autograph if you wanted it.
To SOLELY report on people meeting Peter Cullen, it would have cost you NOTHING. Peter signed until 11:00 and press was allowed in at 10:00. To make a youtube video of YOU and Joey meeting Peter Cullen, yes, that cost money. Though that is not reporting. That is an entertainment piece.
And while it was mentioned on the FAQ page that there would be a charge for Autograph bands, I have conceded that that should have been on the Gen. Admission page. But it was mentioned, though the exact price was not…
Did I leave any facts out?
about 1 month ago
“But it was mentioned, though the exact price was not…”
Do you realize what a HUGE deal that is for a PROFESSIONALLY run show? Seriously. Failure for full disclosure of pricing until at the door very easily constitutes the “price gouging” label I’ve seen mentioned regarding the show. Don’t even get me started on the fact that it was “cash only.”
We did not go to SOLELY report on meeting Peter Cullen. That experience (planned to the best of our ability based on the limited information availed the press in advance coupled with the sparse data on the website) was supposed to be beginning of the article. There were others in line with us as part of the story angle we were working from, but we didn’t need their commentary once the story evolved. It was SUPPOSED to be the beginning of setting up what we thought was going to be an EPIC experience (“We started by meeting Optimus freakin’ Prime!”) and quickly went south.
By the time we circled the dealers rooms for the fifth time, we realized we were at a trade show with nothing to offer the casual fans. We had copious notes on all that we saw there – and boiled it down to the article you read.
YOU need to UNDERSTAND that Joey and I went to the event with expectations of visiting a great convention. BOTCON failed to deliver – so we went home. The article reflects that.
If, Pete, you have truly taken note of many of the comments that have come to light from all of this – THEN THE ARTICLE DID EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO – it created focus on what we believed to be some SERIOUS shortcomings of “the BotCon experience.”
Now the question is… what are you going to do about it?
about 1 month ago
See, you use words like “nothing” and that right there is the problem. Of COURSE there were things for the casual fans. You have argued that there should have been more, as you have a right to do obviously, but when you say “nothing” it makes it hard to take your argument seriously.
And I still contend that you did not report on everything offered. Far from it. Can you at least admit that?
But with all due respect, your article is not indicative of the fandom as a whole. When I say I gleamed a couple things, that does not mean BotCon should now change and is going to do a 180. This is, in so many ways, the convention the fans want. Tweaks will always be made based on the MAJORITY of comments received to make it the best possible show for ALL involved.
about 1 month ago
Quick question. Did you even step foot in the panel room? Yes or no.
about 1 month ago
Hi my name is Pete and I’m going to take selective quotes from someone’s reply and misconstrued them to make myself sound right.
Hi Pete, yes your 300.00 overpriced botcon ticket gets you everything… my CHEAPER SDCC ticket gets me more. Please don’t misquote me, and try not to compare your sad excuse for a “convention” to a top level industry event such as SDCC. If you cannot accept the fact that Botcon is simply another profit source for Hasbro… well then that’s your own sad pathetic truth.
about 1 month ago
Yes Pete – I stepped foot in the panel room. I stepped foot in the panel room that had seating for 1100 people at a convention which (by my estimate) had at least 3000 attendees.
Per the BotCon website, Registered Attendees get seating preference before the General Admission attendees.
From http://www.botcon.com/BotCon10/con10faq.cfm
“Question: Will the $18 general admission allow one into the convention, but without the perks; or does one have to buy one of the four packages?
Answer: General Admission only allows you into the Exhibit Hall and panels if there is seating available. Registered package holders have first seating. No toys or other events are included in General Admission.”
Which leads me to ask – were there more than 1100 Registered Attendees? That answer to that question just might help qualify my use of the word “nothing”.
about 1 month ago
There was always seating for walk ins available. Anyone who came in on Saturday via General Admission would have been able to see the Hasbro Studios panel, the Hasbro Marketing Panel, Activision’s panel, Paul Eiding and Scott McNeil’s panel, Peter Cullen’s panel, the TCC roundtable and IDW’s panel. All panels allowed ALL participants to ask questions as well.
I am glad to hear you went to the panel room. Did you actually attend any of them? I truly am just wondering which one you saw…
about 1 month ago
Pete – you’re dodging the question. The panel room at BotCon 2010 had seating for 1100 attendees. How many Registered Attendees tickets were sold?
I went to the panel room for the sake of seeing it but did not attend a panel… as stated before, we had planned on seeing the Peter Cullen panel and a couple of others that afternoon – but BotCon failed to keep our interest for the hours leading up to it and we opted to leave (after a number of our friends did the same.)